Proxmark3 community

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Hello, anyone know where I can get a cloning device for RFID ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz from Texas Instruments. (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/RI-I03-112A-03/481-1067-2-ND/720839) ?

If someone wants to develop one please let me know I am interested.

Regards!

YoungJules

Contributor

Registered: 2012-01-29

Posts: 60

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=clone+iso15693

But seriously, guess it depends how much you want to spend, how much skill with a soldering iron you have, how comfortable you are with bits and bytes...

Kind regards,
Jules

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Dear Jules, thanks for your answer, I need this form my brother who has an ink delivery business and its competitor forcedly introduced to common customers this transponders without telling the customers. The customers are not happy because now my brothers competitor is the only supplier...By cloning the transponders will make this crazy guy stop doing that. We are not into electronics and RF, so we can't build it, if you know someone that could help please let us know.

Regards,

Lucian

YoungJules

Contributor

Registered: 2012-01-29

Posts: 60

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Think the first site that comes up with the google search I posted is advertising devices to clone such RFIDs.

They are in the 200$ range though, so not sure if that's fitting whatever budget you might have had in mind?  You probably don't need me to tell you that not all sites offering equipment like this are legitimate and that promises of money back if not satisfied may be nothing more than empty words...

I have to say I don't entirely follow the logic of your story.  Someone is shipping ink to customers and suddenly forcing RFIDs on them?  How is cloning those RFIDs going to help?  What are the RFIDs doing that mean the competitor is the only guy who can deliver ink to those customers now?  Guess it's not really any of my business...

I've ordered some samples of the chip you mention so I can try out the cloning possibilities for myself.

Kind regards,
Jules

vivat

Contributor

Registered: 2010-10-26

Posts: 332

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

AFAIK there is no way to clone the UID of ISO 15693 tags(at least at this moment). Proxmark3 can read them, but simulator is not working. PN544-chips support ISO 15693 modulation, but I haven't seen any code that allows to simulate fake tag. There is no tag like this magic Chinese Mifare 1K changeable UID.

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Jules, the site you mention doesn't have such a device, they have just for reading...but no cloning....They promise something in the near future but I am doing my homework and keep looking. Our story is simple: We will copy one label and the we can also ship ink to the customers that have rfid readers on their equipment. At the present moment the equipment has a reader connected with motherboard of the equipment through an ALTERA PFGA....we have no knowledge about this so I believe it easy to clone this labels.
For the buget 200 usd would be great but we could pay more if someone finds a solution.

Vivat: thanks for joining...how do you know that there is no way to clone this tags? Maybe with other hardware than Proxmark3. I didn't understand why you mentioned about Mifare 1K changable UID.
Thanks again!

Regards,
Lucian

YoungJules

Contributor

Registered: 2012-01-29

Posts: 60

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Ah, that's a shame.  It wasn't too clear from my brief reading of the description on the website whether it could clone thos tags or not.

Vivat doesn't know but says "as far as I know"... most likely Vivat is correct.  I guess we shouldn't give up immediately, but Vivat's reply and the fact that site we looked at doesn't offer a cloning device does start to suggest we're not onto a winner here.

There is a "Chinese clone" of the Mifare classic card available on which you can set your own UID, thus making a "perfect clone" possible for Mifare classic.  All Vivat is saying is that there doesn't seem to be the equivalent thing available for the type of tag you are asking about.

I've since received my tag to test on (those nice people at Texas Instruments will send you free samples if you ask nicely enough!).

I don't have a lot of time to spend on it, but I will take a looksie.

Kind regards,
Jules

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

I got it...let's hope you can find a solution.

Thanks!

Lucian

spookyman166

Member

Registered: 2011-06-20

Posts: 15

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

How about this:

> Go to customers with a proxmark3. Sniff the communciation between the tag and the FPGA. Make a smart card simulator (plenty of tutorials online) to act as the proper RFID tag

???

profit

YoungJules

Contributor

Registered: 2012-01-29

Posts: 60

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

I can imagine if you have to duct-tape a proxmark and a psu to every printer cartridge you sell you're not gonna be in business long

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Yes....on every cartdrige is not a solution to add any hardware, It will increase the costs per cartrige too much, but....on every printing machine(is industrial) might be a solution...depends on the cost....

BRG

YoungJules

Contributor

Registered: 2012-01-29

Posts: 60

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Well it looks like the proxmark can indeed read the tag:

proxmark3> hf 15 dumpmemory
Reading memory from tag UID=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [it reads the UID correctly, I just replaced it with xxxxx...]         
Tag Info: Texas Instrument; Tag-it HF-I Plus Inlay; 64x32bit         
Block  0   00 00 00 00    ....         
Block  1   00 00 00 00    ....         
Block  2   00 00 00 00    ....         
Block  3   00 00 00 00    ....   
...
Block 63  00 00 00 00    ....

The question is whether the UID is being checked (in which case there's not much you can do unless we find a chip that can emulate the tag) or if the data in the 64 blocks of 4 bytes (32 bits) has been programmed with some special values which you can clone...

I guess you'll need to get hold of one of the tags and have someone read it to find out.

Kind regards,
Jules

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Dear Jules, thanks! We have a tag and we can read it to an electronic shop, let us know what do you need to move on. Just a short but important note: this guys introduced this tags last year and we asked this guys from electronic shop to copy the tags, they did it for us but, for three months they changed something in the machine so even we have a copy(made with a reader) of a new tag the machine is not accepting the tag. I guess it has a protection to copy command. Therefore, we are looking for a smart hardware to clone the tags not to copy.

We wait your answer,

Regards,

Lucian

YoungJules

Contributor

Registered: 2012-01-29

Posts: 60

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Hi Lucian

I've been in contact with TI but until now have had no response on whether there is indeed a method of cloning these chips or emulating them.

Have you explored the possibility of taking legal steps to counter what seems to be a clear case of anti-competitive behaviour?  We can spend a lot of time on measures and counter-measures and perhaps even find a way, at great expense, to clone these RFIDs only to find the competitor shifts the goalposts by using another RFID or some other means of "locking in" the customers...

Kind regards,
Jules

Last edited by YoungJules (2012-06-19 10:53:24)

lucianmrs

Member

Registered: 2012-05-29

Posts: 10

Re: HELP RFID CLONE ISO 15693/ 13.56MHz

Dear Jules, thanks for effort, we still hope you will find a solution. Legal steps in Romania can only take the customers but they are not willing to do that since they affraid they will not be able to get consumables and not be able to amortizate their investment in machinery. Also legal system is so slow and corrupt, so you don't want to get there. Still, we will contact a lawyer to discuss this issue.

Regards,

Cristian