Proxmark3 community

Daniel A

Member

Registered: 2013-07-18

Posts: 4

HID Tags - Passes - readers

Hi Everyone,

I have a problem with my HID products, We have HID Tags / cards for our tenancy floors and so dose the base building. We also have gold class readers.

The problem is when both cards are together they cancel each other out, we would have like to stick HID tags on the back of the base building passes, but the tags don't work,
so we had to go with FOB keys hanging off the base building cards.

Would really appreciate your feedback.

Daniel.

0xFFFF

Administrator

From: Vic - Australia

Registered: 2011-05-31

Posts: 632

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

Sounds like you're putting two 13.56MHz cards together. Can you take a photo of the two cards?

Daniel A

Member

Registered: 2013-07-18

Posts: 4

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

Hi Oxffff,

Can not see anything to attach the file.

0xFFFF

Administrator

From: Vic - Australia

Registered: 2011-05-31

Posts: 632

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

Go to somewhere like tinypic and upload the photo there. Post the link here.

Daniel A

Member

Registered: 2013-07-18

Posts: 4

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

Try this

o0o0o0o

Contributor

From: Germany

Registered: 2011-10-06

Posts: 64

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

Tag collision in RFID systems happens when multiple tags are energized by the RFID tag reader simultaneously, and reflect their respective signals back to the reader at the same time.

Both tag and card are working at the same frequency : 13.56 MHz
When you present the card/tag to the reader at the same time, the reader :
- sends the signal to either card or tag.
- sends the signal and both tag + card answer.
- or everything is mixed up and the reader cannot distinguish between the 2...

You need to isolate tag and card. I heard many stories on "how to block RFID signal" I haven't try any methods. Would be interested to know if you can put some "isolant" between card and tag.

They usually put that 13.56 MHz tag/sticker you have on top of a 125 KHz card so it doesn't interfere between each other...

Last edited by o0o0o0o (2013-07-18 09:13:29)

carl55

Contributor

From: Arizona USA

Registered: 2010-07-04

Posts: 175

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

The HID iClass credentials use an IDIC chip called PicoPass (manufactured by Inside Secure) to support the identification function and communication with the reader. http://www.insidesecure.com/eng/Product … s/PicoPass
This chip does employ an anti-collision mechanism such that multiple credentials can communicate their ID to a reader when they are grouped close together. It can usually take several seconds to gather the data from a credential if it is in close proximity to another tag.
I just tried several groups of iclass cards and my iclass reader was able to read them correctly when they were positioned back to back.
I also tried reading multiple keyfobs when they were close together in pairs. For some unknown reason the iclass reader could not read those at all. The only difference between the two types of credentials should just be the size of the antenna so I personally don't understand why cards would work but the fobs would not. It sounds like a question that you should ask your Gold Class supplier (ISCS) or HID directly.

Daniel A

Member

Registered: 2013-07-18

Posts: 4

Re: HID Tags - Passes - readers

Thanks guys, really appreciate your feedback.